AMF was More than ever before...what do YOU THINK?

topic posted Mon, August 28, 2006 - 12:08 PM by  Liberty
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um, YA!
here's a spot to reflect your thoughts about various aspects of AMF
and ideas for next year.

topic ideas:
*What music rattles your bones? Shook your booty? made WOW in you?
*Did a BIG Camp impress you? Got a stand out moment?
*Little Camp moments...road side attractions?
*What were the brightest starrz in your fav night scene?
*Who wins your vote for Fabulous Fuking Artist?
*less than sober reflections.
*food for thoughts.
*harm done?
*other: what chew got?



posted by:
Liberty
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  • The gathering was awesome like always, but it was too spread out for a gathering of its size. Too much walking, and not enough forest trails off the main road.
    • "...not enough forest trails off the main road"

      Indeed. We tried, though it became difficult to see at night as many don't come with flashlights.... been thinking about trying to hook up some free flashlights to hand out, with some solar lights on the trails... or something... just fewer trails = less eco impact

      I had a great time this year, stayed close to our camp and worked a lot... great stuff, the best work... mmmmm And our best latrine ever! It was nice being able to provide more ov a gallery this year.... with a good spot for the dreammachine.... bril!

      I will miss next year as I will be across the pond.... now that we have a bus and a genny... wow, you can be sure pan zen will be stepping up for years to come... 9 years for us, but only a few could we have independent sound systems... its great to take it to the next level..

      as for spontaneous guests... I would say having spit styx (fear, nina hagen) doing a live d&b set with his partner was pretty far left ov center... truly fabulous.. see ya'll in 2008 unless I run into ya in europe before....

      /|\
      • Some peole were upset that the flashlights were killing their night vision.

        The festival was great, but I hope we do southern oregon or northern california next year. I like the redwoods and the really big trees with natural trails between them. Really thick patches of thinner trees can be more challanging.

        Either that or we should look for forest with an open meadow....that would be awesome.

        I do appreciate that we found a location close to a river though...that was great.
  • I had a great time! I loved the location, but of course I live in Seattle...it makes perfect sense to me to move it around a bit. (Dust at Shasta was vile, but the spot was lovely, and the creek sooo nice.)

    I loved the fire performances at Pan Zen...
    I loved sharing coffee with passers-by, reconnecting with old friends, and meeting people who were all friends of my friends from days gone by...kinda like filling in the missing pieces in an ever growing puzzle.
    Somehow we ended up with a giant can of baked beans that someone left on my car...if you want it back, let me know. Otherwise it goes on next year's altar to weird.
    I tried to help an old friend and some new friends haul water back up to the road from the river. In the dark. Barefoot. Ow.
    Thanks to our friend and the truckload of homebrew; so tasty, and thanks for sharing with so many folks!
    So much beautiful musix and musin's!
    And maybe Lud and Meg next year? :)

    Gotta job that gives me summers off and access to wholesale food vendors...A new kitchen next year? ;) (Not that it's strictly necessary...you all make some fine vittles, I'd just love to throw my spatula into the fray.)

    I think keeping an eye out for good spots throughout the year is a great idea...and thanks to all those folks who scout, show up early for set up, bring med tent stuff, and generally keep a good eye out.
    • what do YOU THINK? A FWD from anotha amf site

      Thu, September 7, 2006 - 12:39 PM
      feed back from a first timer:


      ian redshift posted this on ragga-jungle.com

      "This was the best party I have ever been to hands down. Complete freedom.
      This is how a society should function. I ate better than I ever have, felt
      healthier than ever, laughed harder, cried harder, damn near cracked my
      face smiling, and heard some of the best free tekno in the world (and I
      can say that cuz I was just at the world electronic music festival). Love
      and evil music, my favorite combo!"

      werd.
      • Re: what do YOU THINK? A FWD from anotha amf site

        Sun, September 10, 2006 - 7:00 PM
        Loved the river canyon and went there everyday
        Loved the trippy layout of Pan Zen
        Loved Tea Camp
        Hated the huge amount of hostile grouchy drunk people who take and take and take
        • Re: what do YOU THINK? A FWD from anotha amf site

          Sun, September 10, 2006 - 7:01 PM
          Also I especially was pleased with Oshawn's Oasis. Found myself and a friend there all alone one night and was saved by the peace and hot tea.
          • HEY MUTANTS! SAY SOMETHING!

            Tue, September 26, 2006 - 3:40 PM
            yup, upon visiting pdx peeps
            i rec'd mo appreciation for Oshawn's Oasis
            they thought it was Rascals camp
            and hung out blissfully with noone there.

            other feedback: 'bigness ' of the fest was ok,
            and the site was georgous
            but too spread out.
            they were @ the other end
            and it was too hard to get to SPAZ
            with a bum hip.

            and also feedback reiterating
            that too many precious amf moments were wasted
            having to relate to too many people @ the fest
            that were not knowing that it was about art and music
            AND also failing to be apropriately prepared.

            BRING ON THE FEEDBACK, FREAKS
            • G
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              offline 51

              Re: HEY MUTANTS! SAY SOMETHING!

              Wed, September 27, 2006 - 6:31 AM
              Hey Mutants,
              Yeah we had a great time! for myself it was a bit more like the kinda festivals I was used to in Britain, free! We met lotsa good people,and really enjoyed the river in the day time, There seemed to be some resentment towards some hippy kids ( for want of a better word), for flag pinching , high jinx and/ or for generally being on the blag cuz they didn't have there shit together. Now casting my memories back some twenty or more years, I remember being a " Orrible little brew crew brat" back then, and none of AMF's younger contingent came anywhere near as close to being that obnoxious, so " hippy kids" can be given a break.
              I told my friends" hey, it was bigger than burningman from one end to the other" which it was, or felt like, going from spaz back to our camp.
              In past experience I've found festivals a little dissconected when they're spread out down green lanes and forestry tracks, but on the whole? had a great time
              • nx
                nx
                offline 43
                the "hippys"/"drainbows"/whatevers are absolutely not to be given a break. they antagonized everyone who came in contact with them (including sexual harrasment of many women), attempted to sabatoge a generator, started fights that escalated into weapons being drawn, and then left ALL THEIR TRASH (including a fucking tire full of compost of all things, which the forest ranger helpfully took so we didnt have to). Having dealt with their degenerate bullshit all week, and also hauling their extremely nasty trash out of the festival; I can say that ,at least for myself and those I consider allies, that type of behaviour is totally unacceptable and will not be reasoned with passively in the future. I know many others feel the same way. Protect what is precious or it will be overrun by the lowest possible common denominator.
                • MUTATION REQUIRES EXPRESSION

                  Wed, September 27, 2006 - 1:51 PM
                  YES YES YES
                  i'll be your fucking poking stick
                  SPEAK YOUR MUTANT MINDS
                  so we might grow n lern n amph be bettered
                  OR we can pretent 'its all good'
                  and deal with moshit next time
                  HA! NOT!

                  ps. i had fun. -the best part-making friends.
                  oh and i LOVED Donnas art in the trees!
                  and banging lids in a dark parade was intoxicating.
                  did i mention the blackberry wine of despair?
                  it was ok
                • this is a slippery slope,,i mean , is it wise to group any number of people under a catchall phrase such as "drainbow'? i think things should be dealt with in a case by case manner. we can't really go around deciding who's a "drainbow" or "hippie" or whatever.

                  i also spent time at festivals in the UK where obnoxious behaviour was more commonplace. i played in a band at a few festivals there that were highly populated by "brew krew", once we had some crazy drunk guy climb up onstage and fall onto our drummer,knocking over his entire kit in the middle of a song. the next band that played were shot at with a pellet gun. some of our squat parties were also invaded by brew krew, who would generally be very drunk and obnoxious and spend the whole time annoying everybody and anybody. the solution? when the big sound systems took over the festival and party scene, it was just too fucking loud for them. of course the nonstop tekno party scene brought it's own set of problems , some drug-related, but it was much more fun.

                  i would propose some manner of sound-weapon to deal with obnoxious people that are camped near you. a directional horn beaming nonstop bloodcurdling noise directly into their brains. you could make it into a performance.

                  i remember mutantfest 2000 when we were first setting up the SPAZ area we were outnumbered by paint-huffing freaks that were causing all kinds of problems for us, and then various annoying drunks started joining them right in front of our bus.. but as soon as we had the sound on they quickly cleared out. i think dissonant hardcore also scares police.

                  aa
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    "a directional horn beaming nonstop bloodcurdling noise directly into their brains"-- is that so directional that if I were standing behind it I wouldn't hear it? Would you compromise the sanity of all of your friends just to rid yourself of some obnoxious people? Wait, don't answer that...... I guess my point is is that not everyone is camping next to soundsystems, and I doubt that everyone who is not obnoxious wants to be. I have many thoughts about AMF this year... some really good, and some really bad. In some ways this year showed me how strong my (our) friends can be, but also this year showed me many seeming hippocrasies (sp?) about who or what some of us say we are or want to be, and I see great room for improvement in the coming years. I don't feel like here is the place to discuss it though, as I don't really know everyone on this forum, instead, I just plant the thought on how life is a constant growth, and only by truly working together and caring about each other can we continue to do so. I look forward to working and caring about all of you non-obnoxiuos ones (hahaha) ;)
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    nx
                    nx
                    offline 43

                    the free nuggz truck and its gruesome legacy

                    Fri, September 29, 2006 - 8:10 PM
                    aa-
                    i agree its a slippery slope. no one wants to become an amf cop. however, the level of inane bullshit we had to endure while camping next to the self-proclaimed "rainbowland" drowns out all attempts at diplomacy. as for your proposition, thats exactly what our soundsystem was this year! except they didnt clear out until sunday. their immediate response to the bloodcurdling sonic attack (starting things off with hawkwind's song of that name) was attempting to sabotage our generator. The group im referencing was actually pretty small, and relativly contained. I realize there was a high number of folks there this year that some might lump into this category, but im talking specifically about a small group camped next to our system.
                    we were actually incredibly restrained throughout all this, and after we engaged the group in a meeting about these and other issues on saturday, they left on decent terms.... albiet without any of their trash .
                    i also agree with belial that this isnt the best place for this discussion....
                    however,
                    one last idea...simple yet effective. establish a large box truck as the "free nuggz" truck, and pick up as many so called "drainbows" as possible. make sure you have plenty of shovels. then drive the truck out to a remote location away from the festival, and explain that they must help dig a sizable shitter in order to recieve the aforementioned nuggz. make sure the"shitter" is big enough to fit all of them. then, ..........
                    • Re: the free nuggz truck and its gruesome legacy

                      Sat, September 30, 2006 - 5:58 PM
                      My biggest complaint about the gathering was that it was way too spread out along one very very long road. My most constructive comment is that we should avoid this in the future.

                      As far as the people....thats a little out of our control. The location however is something we do have control over.
                    • Re: the free nuggz truck and its gruesome legacy

                      Sun, October 1, 2006 - 9:30 PM
                      i should have guessed that u guys had already tried that,,,,,and of course killing the generator is the first line of attack against an electrically generated sonic assault.

                      my only other input on the subject would be that you guys should have had more backup. for example, an army of clowns guarding the gennie, while a battery of 10 or 15 noise artists had their way with those guys mental environment. and perhaps multiple power sources, battery powered sirens,horns,etc,,,,,,and even non-electrical devices,,i mean shit there must have been 50 accordians on site this year....

                      a rapid response pest elimination ad-hoc coalition of some kind.
                • G
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                  offline 51
                  That's a fucked up situation and I'm sorry that you had to endure shit like that at the gathering, and then what to do about it ???? Tough one that, however lumping everyone who might appear to be from that particular camp as culprits, is as Aaron said' a very slippery slope"
                  We had lots of "hippy" kids come hang in our camp, and some of them said that they felt as if other people were behaving in a somewhat hostile fashion towards them, I don't think that we came into contact with any of the crowd that you spoke of, although we did hear of them.
                  We fed alot of people, got alot of folk stoned, and showed a few people how bright the stars really could be one night, because hey! it was a festival, we came home with a butt load of crystals, pipes and other little trinkets that 'hippy kids" had given us in appreciation, we connected well with those we met, which is more than I can say for last couple of years in the upper infastructor circle of the burningman community.
                  So, maybe alerting others of a bad situation that could get worse? try to nip it in the bud early on? certainly anything like sexual harrasment cannot be happening, nor fucking with peoples shit. and if it's happening at AMF and will be stopping people from coming..............Just got to be careful to not turn into what we don't want to be whilst dealing with it, these things, bull shit that they are, are some of the processes of festival life that keep things real, and believe me, compared to what I have seen " over the pond" it doesn't seem like a massive problem to deal with.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    What should somebody do if they are aware of a sexual predator at a gathering? If somebody you know tells you that they were raped by somebody who is present at the gathering?
                    • G
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                      offline 51
                      Erm..................... ideally we would not have sexual predators in our midst, but subcultures can be a easy place for predators to lurk and some people are not really what they appear to be.
                      I know that there are many reasons for a victim to not want to report an assult or rape to the authorities at the time of the attack, I can't imagine a predator hanging around(at a gathering) unless they are sure they aren't gonna get caught or exposed for crimes they've commited. I would think that if the supposed guilty party thought that folk were onto him, then he would fuck off sharpish. but who knows what nut jobs really think! Anyways, I think it's fair to say that if you are sure that such a problem exsists, then you should feel oblidged to let your fellow mutants know about it,
                      • I know of a person who is a repeated sex offender who has shown up multiple times to multiple festivals. So far nobody has said anything to the authorities for their own personal reasons, and personally I am surprised that he hasnt gotten his ass kicked yet. Luckily I did not see this person at this festival this year, but I just wanted to ask peoples opinions of the best way to handle such a situation if it were at some point in the future to arise.
                        • G
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                          offline 51
                          yeah, if you are sure about this person, then everyone should be aware of him, I can't think of single reason why that presence should be toleratted,
                          • I agree.... if EVERY person at the fest knew about this person, and they knew we were all watched them to make sure no one who might not know went off with them in an unsafe situation, it would be difficult for them to give in to their predatory demon....., but whether this is actually possible at a place where people sometimes are drunk or doing other things is the question....... and honestly, there have been many times at this fest when I've had to "babysit" people who couldn't handle their "liquor".... a predator in this situation is highly dangerous whether they are the drunk one or stalking the drunk one...... this also brings in the question of autonomy....... what is it? How do you continue to have a safe environment to practice autonomy without policing others? This one has stumped me for years..... if you asked me a few years ago, I would have said maybe we could somehow help rehabilitate people with these problems using our own anti-streamlined ways, but, at this point in my life, I'd just as soon police them and make them leave rather than deal with the bullsh*t of having them there...... how to make them leave, I don't know, normally my raging threats scare most people away... but there have been times in the past at AMF where serious de-escalation was needed(in a different type of situation).... and it took A LOT of people working together to do it..... this is easier to do when camps are closer together, and many people can come to an area fast, but, we can't be too picky about where people find sites--- they work their asses off to do it, and mutants are getting pickier and pickier each year, and are growing in numbers.... fortunately most "problems" that have happened at AMF have resolved fairly well..... and the most serious things that do happen are compareable to minor instances at other festivals.....but as mutants grow in numbers, so will the amount and severity of mishaps and predatory behaviour..... Where's that duct tape?
                            • At a weeklong festival I helped organize in '99, we organized a large pirate-themed treasure hunt. People organized into clans to do the hunting, which involved piecing together dozens of clues, scavenger-hunt style. The treasure, by the way, was a potluck thrown in by many of the 80-odd bands performing that week, and included (among other things) CDs, T-Shirts, mushrooms, pot, games, stickers, etc.

                              Anyhow, one of the bands stole the treasure map from one of the organizers, effectively ruining the fun for everyone else. So that night we lit torches and went to their camp, 200 strong. We gave them a "trial"; a guy dressed as a barbarian acted as their lawyer. He was stinking drunk, and had nothing nice to say about them. They tried to defend themselves, but they were clearly terrified, as 200 angry/drunk punks and freaks were leering at them. We tied them up and gave them a good scare before throwing them in the lake and taking the treasure back. If we'd been less drunk, we would have used the stocks McPuke had made.

                              Obviously, you can't stop people from being assholes. But you can make justice fun. There was nothing that we could have really done to save the game. Instead we made it into a whole new game, and everyone had a chance to reclaim their fun and get vindication. In the end, AMF is roughly about the same thing: fun.

                              At a certain point, though, you have to know where the line is; when you have the "moral authority" or whatever to tell people to get the fuck out, and be prepared to back it up with lots of like-minded homies.
                              • "if you asked me a few years ago, I would have said maybe we could somehow help rehabilitate people with these problems using our own anti-streamlined ways, but, at this point in my life, I'd just as soon police them and make them leave rather than deal with the bullsh*t of having them there"

                                Those are about my thoughts on the subject as well.
                                I dont believe that its really possible to change people unless they come to you with every intention of helping themselves. Rehabilitation in my opinion is preferable in a prison situation to cold hard punishment, but I dont really think we have the resources to provide that level of care, not to mention the fact that rehabilitating somebody against their will is more authoritarian then 86ing them.

                                • G
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                                  offline 51
                                  we fuckin' loved the river
                                  • " Kill the drainbows now...mutation requires sacrifice "

                                    I'm certainly in favour of sacrifice but I don't feel that pachouli stinkin drippies make
                                    a worthy offering to any deity. I've read of this " drainbow " experience and their quest for nuggz and I have found it quite entertaining. I feel the delima here can be remedied by diplomacy and if not perhaps more drastic steps can be taken.

                                    In Leviticus it is said " the smell of the scarifice is a pleasant odor in the nostrils of the Lord " Lets not peev off the old man by sacrificing stinkn drainbows !!!

                                    <o>*<o>
                                    (~v~~v~)
                                    ......V.......
                                    • nx
                                      nx
                                      offline 43
                                      RuMpLe,

                                      Excellent point. I think more practical extermination procedures are in order. A sacrifice should be something/someone you care about anyways. And of course, diplomacy/communication is the first step; yet as we witnessed, it often isnt effective. We are working on our methodologies for next year, perhaps we could collaborate! The "improvised munitions handbook" published by the US military is a good primer.

                                      An important first step would be NOT to have Mutantfest in space/time proximity to a "rainbow regional gathering".

                                      -
                                      nx
                                      • FREE NUGGS shuttle to the river !

                                        Wed, October 4, 2006 - 2:59 PM
                                        -if what we mean by 'river' is the freeway onramp
                                        and a map to some other REALLY KIND festival
                                        (much more fun for them than amf...)

                                        its the same as what we do when were in the wrong place:
                                        move along till we find the party with
                                        all the groovy peeps,
                                        grooovy music,
                                        and ~~~groovy vibes, man~~~
                                        for us as individuals.

                                        ps, If im not mitsaken, the kids came out to amf
                                        from Eugene where a StringCheese Tour ended with a 3 day party.
                                        amf was the next free party in the trees to go to...
                                        they didnt even know that its a rucus freaky diy music fest.

                                        maybe we can pretend on the website
                                        that the fest costs hella money @ the 'door'
                                        AND peeps gotta dig shitters

                                        Rich bitchez wont wanna dig, and moochers wont have the cash

                                        which leaves us with: well hell, us
                                        that KNOW we have to dig big shitters, werk some in the kitchen and its free.
                                        • Re:

                                          Thu, October 5, 2006 - 3:46 AM
                                          I don't have any constructive criticism that hasn't already been spouted here. this was my first AMF and I had a hootnaholler good time, tho I had to cut out before the weekend. I was really impressed by how the event was organized and yet still free to mutate. the river and the trail down there was epic.

                                          that sucks about the disrespectful hippies, especially since actual rainbow folk take such pride in leaving no trace.
                                          it makes me think of when I'd put together ambient events and would occasionally have annoying folks show up that didn't understand that not all electronic events are raves, but coinciding events with the night that Soopah Star DJ X was playing cut back on that.

                                          I don't know if a date is already set for AMF next year, but consciously overlapping dates with a prominent jam band festival in the PNW may be effective for weeding out those folks just looking for the next festival to crash.
                • And the one guy that was feeding hippis and freak alike had all his food taken and was left behind. Flee is a guttermonk, not a hippy. Some wellmeaning Rainbows Jonezed the rest of my food on the claim they were staying to clean. They left early, left trash, and couldn't even cook. the food I gave them well. I used to do Gatherings, but it all got old. There are more fights at rainbow gatherings than AMF, BM, and every Subgenius devival I've ever been to.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    I went to the National Gathering for the first time in years. I saw a lot of people at rainbowland and AMF. Most of those people, even the ones in tie dyes aren't the people that are bitched about. I think its that exclusive hypocritical head trip thing that gets on my nerves.

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