I'm a mutant not a burner!

topic posted Mon, August 29, 2005 - 10:07 PM by  Autumn
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
If I wanted to give a shit about burning Turd I'd be on that tribe but this here be fo Tree Hugging Mutants that know how to party in the arms of the Forest Goddesses.
Damn that forest was beautiful with all the sound systems echoing off eachother and drunk chillins stumbling around in the dark with out flashies.
I wish we could do some more of these parties in the woods and if there are any gonig on post them here and while your at it, why not invite Cirkus Pandemonium to play fire and ariel stunts to liven the occasion!
I love to burn the fire, but I don't need to fry my pale skin the the freaking desert to do it!
Baaahh!
posted by:
Autumn
Salt Lake City
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

    Tue, August 30, 2005 - 10:50 PM
    Some mutants have spent all their money on Burning Turd and now they are morally bankrupt ( you know who you are ! ) I don't get it. More than half the people going to Burning Turd are there for self gratification and don't know dick about art, these are 4-5 day weekend warrior type yuppies, who only wish they could freak like a mutant all the time, insted they have to conform to Corporate Law in order to afford their ticket to Burning Turd ( make sense ? ) .

    The desert is very sacred place too like the forest. What is really sad is that these people totally trash the place and it takes months sometimes to clean it all up because your average burner can't wipe their own ass. Black Rock City is a good place to be when Burning Turd is no where happening any time soon. How about having AMF there when Burning Turd is'nt happening or perhaps some other event that doesn't involve anything remotely like Burning Turd. Just a suggestion....

    I was fortunate enough to be at the first ones in S.F., back when it was about fun, not getting money from yuppy scum and exploitong artists to entertain them. Back then you didn't have to worry about frat boys trying to rape your girlfriend or ugly old fat men wearing nothing but fanny packs video taping her ass as she walks by or trying to lure young girls back to their RVs for a coke party not knowing there were hidden cam recorders, blah blah, the stories I've heard and the things I've seen....Just my opinion nothing more :o)

    But if AMF turns into a Burning Turd like scenario - I'm out of here!

    Angelique ! Angelique !


    .:<o>:.
  • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

    Wed, August 31, 2005 - 2:03 AM
    Well said.
    • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

      Wed, August 31, 2005 - 9:13 AM
      AMF will not be another burning turd, I assure you. We'll stop doing it before that happens and do something else instead. Now, about the trashing of the Playa, in fact you are off. Months to clean up? Try thousands of years. The stuff people piss into the chalk dust and spill on it, and burn into it don't have any sort of microbial counterbalance to biodegrade them. Of course yuppie freak-wannabes don't give a fuck about that. They've been hoarding all of their vacation time, and building costumes just for this event. Maybe they think the body paint will disguise the fact that they are old, fat, flabby, and don't care about anything but trying to weekend freak and see what style they can bite for next year while they do drugs and listen to Trance. Yeah, creepy old guys and chicks in neon fur and spandex. My kinda scene...not. Give me the trees, the people who know what freakdom is, and are not there to keep up with the Jonses, but just to get down with the other freaks in a place that is already conducive to freakdom. Like I said in another thread, you can't buy freakdom, not even for $250 a ticket.

      O
      • I'm a mutant burner!

        Sat, September 3, 2005 - 1:05 PM
        " trashing the Playa " It's a given that it gets trashed by yuppified consumers who don't give a toss about environment. The number of stinking humans concentrated
        is bound to be messy. AMF differs in that it rotates the area to be impacted environmentally with lots of mutant humans by hosting it in a different local, unlike Burning Turd which has been focused at black rock city. This year there was lots of garbage and recycling left by campers who attended. Lots of bags but at least it was clean up and packed out. I occasionally picked up used batteries off the roads and trails, those don't biodegrade friendly. Another thing that annoyed me were some people displaying signs off the main drag asking to trade for pot etc, how lame, especially when we had the Ranger etc checking things out. There is a lot of room for improvement of course. The littering of the playa tho is on a scale all by itself......

        " they are old, fat, flabby, and don't care about anything " Quite a generalization. Do have something against a creature if they are " old ". What is " old " to you ? Ancient of days perhaps ? ! Hmmm.

        " they do drugs and listen to Trance"~~~~+ Sounds like AMF too ! Didn't you read the local paper ???!!!!+~~~

        " neon fur and spandex " Seems I recall someone at AMF wearing such garments....and face paint and masks.....

        There is a bit over over lap between burners and mutants
        but the volume and quality discern things for myself and such
        foul human creatures.

        <o>*<o>
        (~~~~~)
        ......V......
        • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

          Sat, September 3, 2005 - 4:02 PM
          Yeah, there's a LOT of room for improvement in mutant awareness as of late, however before you keep taking shots at me, you ought to find out a bit more out about to whom you speak.

          You're a mutant burner, so you do...both? So you participate in something that tries from the beginning to be educational and instilling personal responsibility towards oneself and the world around them, then participate in a money-grubbing cop-inviting bullshit yuppie-funded mess, and that makes you what...? Cool? Open-minded? Responsible? No, it makes you twice as foul because you not only participate in the mess, you do it fully aware of the consequences of your actions, beneath and before the oblivious yuppy-turd. I know plenty that do, and most of them know my feelings on the matter. I'm displeased and diappointed with all of them. Most are smart enough to keep their mouths shut around me about doing both.

          Burning turd reached the point of being wrong long ago. The overlap is a bit like wearing sandals and walking through the forest then walking through a pig-sty, then coming back to the rest of the world covered in pigshit (alkaline dust) like it's something to be proud of. It's not.

          As for the signs, you know what you do? You speak up. You educate others to the stupidity of their actions and the consequences that reach a little farther than they've obviously thought, and you tell them to stop. That's how we all help each other to improve ourselves and the rest of the world. That's how we police each other instead of using others to do it for us, while they use that excuse to enslave us further. Think.

          What is old? In this connotation try to think of it as "stale", like bread.

          I didn't see a whole lot of neon spandex at AMF, and I certainly didn't hear any Trance. Maybe there was some. I didn't hear it, and that's good thing, cuz I don't really like it, o the mindset of a lot of folks into it. Tranceheads have enough other fesitvals, like Burning Shit to pollute already. If you believe the paper, I pity you.

          Now, do you want to quote me further, and try to annoy and insult with such inferences of hypocrisy, or are you finished?

          O
          • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

            Sat, September 3, 2005 - 5:41 PM
            My my the oogie likes to criticize but can't take the heat himself, poor baby. Your arrogance and " more PC than thou " attitude is not at all refreshing. Criticism is good and part of the growing process and everyone is entitled to express themselves whether you agree or not.

            I'm not a " mutant burner " but I know people who could be described as such. Like I said there is cross over. Your overwhelming prejudice off ALL burners is rather shrill, even by Goblin standards.

            I walked through pig syt camps at AMF, beer cans strewn all over, napkins stuck in the bushes, used condoms on the ground... the cops had given some people $100 tickets for littering. If they could do that at Burning Turd they'd make a fortune....
            Your use of the word " old " was not in terms of something being " stale " as you are saying now, it was towards the physical age of someone when you made your comments above. I certainly don't hold prejudices towards people if they are older and like to play with body paints etc and come to events. I don't think age really means much when it comes to community having fun, just my opinion.
            The paper I was refering to was the article written by the local papr of the town near the AMF campsite. Perhaps someone has copy you can read. I certainly don't " believe " everything I read but then there are the people who do....
            I'm finished now unless you have some holier-than-thou things to add....
            • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

              Sat, September 3, 2005 - 11:08 PM
              I put a glowstick up my ass, am I a burner now, ha ha. I find all this shit talking hypocritical considering all involved. It seems people like to talk a lot of shit here on Tribe & slander. I'm fucking fed up with the childish drama & will exit Tribe with grace. I find it very disconcerting mutants behave this way knowing it only hurts all of us in the long run. I will be attending Mutant Fest next year & will be bringing with me fun freaks & music: dance, drink, smoke, fight with me or fuck off. he he
              • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                Sun, September 4, 2005 - 12:07 PM
                For some one " fed up " with it, you sure was dishing it out about a month ago, talk about hypocritical , gesh !
                • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                  Mon, September 5, 2005 - 12:07 AM
                  And tell me, did you, in your walks through pig sty camps pick up any of the mess you saw? Believe me, I'm not happy with the way folks were slobs up there either. The only things I left on the ground were tobacco wrapped in rice paper, and my sunglasses (not by choice).

                  I don't know who you are, and you seem to be loath to show your face on your profile, instead posing as some kind of Goblin, like being a member of the band makes you somehow special, however you seem to be fast to criticize, but slow to actually help to improve the situation. That's lame. I may come across here as unpleasant by your standards, and frankly I could give a fuck less about what you, or anyone else thinks next to keeping the forest clean, mutants alive, and assholes out. I pick up trash and prevent forest fires at every Mutantfest there has ever been, save one. Know why? Aaron and I were the ones to give AMF it's fuckin name in the first place, back when we came up with it in '97. Now what do you do? Whine, bitch and point fingers like stumps? Step off, I'm doin the Hump, Rump. I don't give a rat's ass about what you accept and do not, or how you want to interprete what I said.

                  As for the local paper, yeah I read it. Know what else I did? I talked with some of the local folks who came and visited and actually helped them build a little better understanding of what AMF's really about, and not what paper's and cops told them, and they are grateful, and actually pretty cool after getting over being wierded out. What did you do? Pose in a band on Katabatik's rig? Freak the locals out?

                  *air-wank

                  Maybe you don't get it: AMF is about building better communication and understanding among folks that haven't mutated and those that have. Not posers and wankers, but mutants. What are you?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                    Mon, September 5, 2005 - 11:16 AM
                    It seem you Oogie are quick to criticize and when you get some back at you, you have a hissy fit. I think it's good that people are bring up these issues, they do need to be discussed. you're cursing for thing makes you look like a foul mouth little teenager, not someone who has something constrcutive to offer ( hello ? ).
                    If AMF is about building better communication, you should walk the talk because you come across as a big hypocrit after reading this rant of yours.

                    Get real.
                    • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                      Mon, September 5, 2005 - 2:08 PM
                      nah, dude, you get real. If you're worried about the presentation over the content...you've got a ways to go before understanding anything about what "getting real" means, and probably shouldn't use the expression until you have full grasp its connotation. As for my cursing, you've heard it face to face. I don't care what you think I sound like online. You've seen me, you've met me, you know who I am.

                      In the meantime, you know nothing of what I've walked. How about the next AMF planning meeting you come on down, and when scouting time comes around you go scout for a few weeks for the right spot (if you even know what that entails), and when the AMF comes around you walk all over the festival, and instead of pointing fingers at who sounds like what, you put out brushfires that ignorant and irresponsible trippers light, you break up the fights, you talk down the dark-siders, you pick up trash, you fix the generators, and you talk to the cops. Sound like how you want to spend your AMF? Doubtful. Not too many do. They'd rather relax, enjoy the woods, enjoy the music that I and others provide, and not have to worry about anything but their own pleasure. And that's fine, but don't bitch about it. I bust my ass so that you and everyone else that goes to AMF has a good and safe time. What the fuck do you do? Enjoy the fruits of my labor then whine about my words and how I say them. And you want to tell ME to get real? Bullshit. You show a little more respect for people that are looking out for you and everyone around you while you're partying away in the woods. How's that for real? If you've got more to say. Let's take it offlist.

                      O
                      • Dramarama

                        Mon, September 5, 2005 - 3:14 PM
                        Can you guys settle this privately... If you both could care less about each other then why are you continueing this arguement? If neither of you 'know' what the other has or hasn't done then don't put the other down... I applaud whoever started AMF and continues to help with it, but I'm not gonna kiss their ass... Everyone plays their part @ AMF... some more than others just like in any life scenario... Doesn't make anyone inferior to anyone else... Nobody knows everyone's life outside AMF. This kind of crap is what's dividing our community...

                        Year of the (Bantam) Rooster indeed! Either settle it amicably amongst yourselves offlist or fight it out. Additions of weapons, mud, costumes or other such things would make it much more interesting for the rest of us... ;)
                      • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                        Mon, September 5, 2005 - 4:55 PM
                        Oogie hasn't demonstrated the ability to
                        communicate in a constructive manner.
                        His ' more PC than thou ' arrogant attitude
                        is real turn off. He has no idea how much
                        sweat and work I put into this years AMF,
                        how much shit I had to clean up and pack.
                        Keep your prejudices to yourself.
                        • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                          Mon, September 5, 2005 - 5:57 PM
                          "Oogie hasn't demonstrated...blublublublaaaahhh." Boring. Boring to me, boring to others. I invited you to take it offlist and now so have others. I think burning turd sucks, and with rare exception so do the people who attend it. That's the point of this thread. I've explained that clearly as have others here. It's a rant thread, and it's been clearly expressed in multiple ways, by multiple people, myself included. Your statement is wrong. Get over it.

                          O
                          • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                            Mon, September 5, 2005 - 8:31 PM
                            Oogie is still blathering about his self absorbed importance ? BORING.
                            I rather like his TARTness tho, he seems more Goblin than human- scary thought ! I think he just needs more FIBER in his diet !
                            " Fuck " , "assholes ", " ass " & " building better communication " -these are hilarious quotes ! His use of communication skills and language are far superior, I'm affraid we must submit to his intellect and get over it.
                            Ya know Burning Turd has many followers who feel as passionately about Burning Turd as Oogie does about AMF.
                            Most of the mutant humans I've met over the years at AMF
                            give credit to EVERYONE who helps make AMF happen, it isn't narrowed down to a few ELITE individuals......

                            I rather fancy Autumn's suggestion of combat for entertainment between the disputing parties. I would relish a Bicycle Joust ( no shields or armour ) in full costume !!! Knowing Pils, he would probably challenge Oogie to a game of Chess * snicker * What say you Oogie ?
                            I'm not offended by your potty mouth !

                            <o>*<o>
                            (~~~~~)
                            ......V......
                            • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                              Tue, September 6, 2005 - 10:34 AM
                              Hey Amber , I had this Oogie guy message me privately and he starts off by calling me an "asshole". This individual cannot communicate in a constructive manner at all and his hypocrisy knows no bounds. I've given up the guy, he's hopeless. Pershaps one day he'll actually practice what he preaches but I'm not holding my breath.

                              Cheers.:<o>:.
                              • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

                                Tue, September 6, 2005 - 11:44 AM
                                I'm still waiting for the battle... No chess, unless it's life-like, but that would require more than just 2 as you can only fight to the death once... Bike jousting sounds divine... Could someone tape it for me? ;)

                                Otherwise, best to ignore and let it be... Bravado Pride is the scourge of man... Words cut deeper...
                                • body count

                                  Tue, September 6, 2005 - 6:36 PM
                                  There will be no battle. This human Oogie is much too puny,
                                  it wouldn't be a fair.

                                  As of last Saturnday, I heard there were 3 confirmed deaths at Burning Turd, also 3 confirmed cases of rape on the playa though I suspect its higher than that.
                                  I also heard they had cops with drug sniffing dogs, undercover cops, cops in uniform, cops on foot, cops on bikes, cops in cars, even cops riding around in golf carts arresting people day and night. SOOOOOOOOOooooooooo glad I wasn't there !

                                  <o>*<o>
                                  (~~~~~)
                                  ......V......
                                  • Re: body count

                                    Tue, September 6, 2005 - 7:50 PM
                                    AMF was kinda freaky one night with cops issueing tickets and cruising slowly... Really weirded me out on my way to Katabatik... and it was so quiet... Never experienced that at AMF before.

                                    Never been to BM, never have a desire to. I'd love to see the desert, but not with thousands of real weirdos (and not good ones)... Forest for festivals suits me better as I can hide if I want to. ;)
                                    • Re: body count

                                      Tue, September 6, 2005 - 9:53 PM
                                      Know what? If you've got to stoop to picking apart linguistics, you've already lost any sort of argument you might have had. And now whining to a forum back and forth, oh my.

                                      As for the cops at AMF, look out for your own. If folks stay on top of each other and practice discression you won't have problems. It's that simple. Show them nothing and they become bored and leave. Put on a show for them and they'll be all over you. Tell me about one death or rape at AMF in eight years. Wonder why...

                                      O
                                      • Re: body count

                                        Wed, September 7, 2005 - 9:47 AM
                                        Kept my stuff in my socks... There was one incident of a guy messing with Lenaya and my daughter a couple years back. Needless to say that guy was asked to leave and did. Thanks to all who looked out for them. :) Assholes everywhere... but that guy was more of a Burner and definately not a mutant. One of the weekend gawkers...
                                        • Re: body count

                                          Wed, September 7, 2005 - 6:02 PM
                                          " building better communication " by calling people " asshole "
                                          sums up Oogie for me. If you can make that work, I'll be amazed and impressed.

                                          A couple of people have told me a "stories" of an incident of rape at AMF, but the details were rather sketchy at best.


                                          Cheers.:<o>:.
                                          • Re: body count

                                            Wed, September 7, 2005 - 7:26 PM
                                            You're a lying skank, James. Here's the message verbatim, copied from my sent file:

                                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            Date Mon, September 5, 2005 - 5:51 PM
                                            Subject boring, Sydney...boring boring boooring
                                            Message

                                            I'm tired of hearing your shit on the burner thread James, and I'm not alone. Don't talk about me, talk to me. And while you're at it,

                                            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poli...lly_correct

                                            I fall into none of that. If I think you are an asshole, I'll tell you so, to your face, and not call you something like "sphinctorally oriented", or "posteriorally located" in front of others in public forums, or tip-toe around it by whining about you in the third person, about how you demonstrate this or that. That shit's for cowards with no integrity using passive aggression techniques to sway public opinion instead of direct confrontation. If you've got something to say, say it to me directly.

                                            O

                                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                            If you're going to quote me, do it correctly. I didn't call you an asshole then, and I don't have to now, either. You do it for me. You'd better work a little more on your lying abilities while you're at it.

                                            I can sum you up very quickly as well: a chump who doesn't know how to shut up and stop boring or annoying others. If you keep rubbing me this way, you may well run into more adversity than you ever expected. You show me one thing you've added here at all besides pointing a finger at me. You show me one bit of knowledge or intellect at all besides trying to insult or demean, no matter how eloquently (and it's not really) you think you may be expressing yourself. Really show us all. Teach us something. Do something nice for any of us. Otherwise, just shut the fuck up and don't say anything anymore. And while you're at it, I don't care about amazing or impressing you, and never did. Want to keep this onlist instead? No problem.

                                            O
                                            • Re: body count

                                              Thu, September 8, 2005 - 12:25 AM
                                              " you may run into more adversity than you ever expected "

                                              Now that is a threat little Oogie. Threatening people is cowardly
                                              at best. Are you afraid of something ?

                                              How about " building better communication " by calling people " skank " ?

                                              My favorite quote by Oogie is " Frankly I could give a fuck less about what you or anyonelse thinks..."




                                              • Re: body count

                                                Thu, September 8, 2005 - 11:11 AM
                                                No Stumple, it's a warning. There's a difference. All these ALTs. Zzzzz boring. Beneath your mask, make-up and stripey socks you're a pathetic little scrawney human, with more than your fair share of frailties, probably far more than me. If carrying on with this thread in an attempt to try to silence or shame me with your sad ideas of what is what and what isn't, then maybe you need to go work on some more puppets and get better at putting on shows. Maybe work on something a little more original and innovative. Then again, maybe that's beyond you. If your posts are a reflection therof then you've got a LONG way to go.

                                                Am I afraid of something? Sure, plenty of things, but nothing that walks on two legs, and certainly not clowns dressed as SCA monsters armed with foam and psychedelics. For the record, I don't make threats. I don't need to. However, if you're feeling threatened, maybe you ought to hit the altar a bit harder. Just be careful what you wish for, ten-fold and all.

                                                And like I said before, if your argument is linguistics, it's because you have no other argument at all. You lose, and you're a loser. How does it feel? Wait, don't answer that, I don't really want to hear the answer, and I don't care what it is. I'd rather you just keep it to yourself while you think it over, and I'd bet your fingers I'm not alone.

                                                O
                                            • Re: body count

                                              Thu, September 8, 2005 - 10:53 AM
                                              " You show me one bit of knowledge or intellect at all besides trying to insult or demean " this could easily appy to yourself.
                                              " If you keep rubbing me this way, you may well run into more adversity than you ever expected " I've yet to stoop to threats because it would be dishourable for me to threaten a friends of my friends without good cause. This all just a battle of words to me but your ego has blinded your sensibilities and your taking this into the realm of threats. Well, having been born and raised in the Bay Area, adversity is nothing new to me, in fact, I thrive on it. I don't take threats likely though, especially from someone who lives in my hood. I'm sorry you have resort to threats, I really mean you no harm. This interaction is, in a sense, building better communication even though I've had to tolerate your high school name calling, cuss words and now threats. I move beyond that but you have to as well. I noticed you have already continued this antagonistic demeanor towards me on other threads in this tribe, yet here you want me to " shut the fuck up ". Well, if you are going to provoke me, I am not going to shut up and I'm certainly not going to let you censore me in any way shape or form.
                                              " Teach us something " Well I could apply the same question to yourself. I do teach by the way. Subjects I've taught include: ceramonial magick, remote viewing, fermentation, mycology, freemasonic history, entheobotany and wild crafting herbs. How about yourself ?
                                              " I don't care about amazing or impressing you " You are now the liar ! If that were so, you wouldn't have invested so much time on me, DUH ! I appreciate it though, really. We many of the same friends, in fact we were at the same party just last weekend ! So, we are just going to have to deal with each other and hopefully in a peaceable manner without threats.
                                              • Re: body count

                                                Thu, September 8, 2005 - 7:38 PM
                                                It's funny how you try to spin things like warnings as threats. Just like you spin how I said if I was going to call you an asshole I would do it outright, but I didn't. And then ignore your own linguistic weaknesses while trying to point fingers at mine. How very apt. You have nothing more to offer than that. Poor thing, and you've had to "tolerate" so much. My dear lad, you speak as if you've never run into these things, and yet you live in the hood? Pity you.

                                                This isn't even a battle of words, it's a joke of which you are the brunt. Oh, gee...how blindingly brilliant of you to finally put two and two together after I'd already told you where, when and what everyone was drinking and eating. Boy oh boy, you are quick, but not very.

                                                Well, if you were paying attention, instead of getting your panties all tied up in a knot over liguistics, you'd have observed that the first lesson, obviously unheeded, is to look after those around you instead of simply walking by and making comments later. The next one is to not get caught up in linguistics. Guess you missed that one too. So now I'll give you a lesson that will serve you will for life. Don't get caught up in how something is expressed. People express themselves in all kinds of ways and simply because you choose to find something distasteful does NOT invalidate it in the least, much as you might like to believe otherwise. Take for example, music. Simply because somebody doesn't particularly enjoy listening to opera, does that mean that all of the years of study, rehearsal, and knowledge to bring a performance to fruition mean nothing and the performance invalid because a couple people in the audience don't like the female lead's vocal timbre, or because the words are in French instead of Italian? Hell no. Yet that seems to be the crux of your "diatribes".


                                                So with that in mind remember these three things well:

                                                Listen,

                                                Pay Attention,

                                                Admit you're wrong when you are.

                                                You'll get a LOT farther in life.

                                                There's your lesson. Now run along.

                                                O


                                                PS. Fuck
                                                • Re: body count

                                                  Thu, September 8, 2005 - 8:20 PM
                                                  ENOUGH ALREADY! PLEASE TAKE THIS ARROGANT BULLSHIT OFFLIST!!!

                                                  Can we get over ourselves and get back to talking about AMF now?
                                                  • Re: body count

                                                    Fri, September 9, 2005 - 9:53 AM
                                                    Oogie is all hot air. Sorry this dragged on for so long.
                                                    You won't get an apology from him though.
                                                    • Re: body count

                                                      Fri, September 9, 2005 - 11:23 AM
                                                      Wow. I feel like this is all a battle for "the last word".
                                                      Can it PLEASE be taken privately?
                                                      Thanks.
                                                      • Re: body count

                                                        Fri, September 9, 2005 - 11:48 AM
                                                        See above. I tried.

                                                        *shrugs

                                                        Want to get back to talking about AMF? Go for it. How about some ideas and suggestions on improvements? Not complaints, but solutions.
                                                        • suggestions

                                                          Sat, September 10, 2005 - 10:27 PM
                                                          Do or do not, there is no try.....

                                                          How about organizing people who show up early to dig a bunch of shitters. Beats seeing shit piles covered with nothing less than napkins or tissues in the woods.

                                                          It might be helpful to pass out garbage bags to people who didn't bring any for their mess, so that it doesn't end up scattered on the ground and left there for someonelse to pick up.

                                                          Having more organized recycling would do wonders. If we could set up a " recycling station " within the camp and notices placed about so people knew where it was, that could divert a lot of the mess I saw this year along the side of the road etc.

                                                          :p
                                                          • Re: suggestions

                                                            Sun, September 11, 2005 - 4:18 AM
                                                            grow up. shut up.

                                                            option 2: delete the thread.
                                                            • Re: suggestions

                                                              Sun, September 11, 2005 - 8:51 PM
                                                              How about the fact that there were a bunch of shitters, and a few places had decent recycling areas, typically located near the kitchens (a la SPAZ), and perhaps the elephant in the middle of the room that people Rumple seem to ignore is that those things only work by telling folks they are there, and how they work. Like I said before, this thing is about communication. I dunno about any of the rest of you, but I usually say at least "hello" to almost every single person I see when walking down the road (unless my head is occupied, which is rarely) or stopping to check out a camp, unless they are involved in something that requires concentration and focus, like a performance, etc.. If I see something amiss, like somebody just dropping trash, or tossing a cigarette into the woods, or building an unsafe fire, I stop them and show them how to fix the problem, and ask them to not do it again. Later I'll come back and check on them.

                                                              Want to know a real good source for trash bags?

                                                              Rangers. Just ask them for trash bags. Usually they'll even pick up the bags if you fill them up and collect them into one or a couple places on the side of the road. In fact, most of the time when you do that, they'll hassle you less for the other shit cuz they know you're making their job easier down the line and are not there to be disrespectful to the land.

                                                              @colin I saw you walking around quite a bit. You looked a little sketchy at first, and I don't think I ever saw you talk to anyone.
                                                • Unsu...
                                                   

                                                  Re: body count

                                                  Thu, October 5, 2006 - 4:37 PM
                                                  Well, if you were paying attention, instead of getting your panties all tied up in a knot over liguistics, you'd have observed that the first lesson, obviously unheeded, is to look after those around you instead of simply walking by and making comments later. WORD i was thinking the same thing for 5 minutes until you wrote this. i give you props Oogie. i hear you bro. big ups. thanks.

                                                  thanks for helping out during the festival and during the year. although i don't know you, i did notice that you listed a couple good things people could do at mutantfest instead of just walk around saying what is wrong.
                                                • waste of time

                                                  Thu, October 5, 2006 - 8:00 PM
                                                  This is the stupidets post I've ever wasted my time reading. I'm a fucking rainbow mutant burner! Go waste time on that one.
        • Re: I'm a mutant burner!

          Tue, January 9, 2007 - 5:01 PM
          First of all it is awesome how you lump all burners into one category, almost sounds like commentary from Fox News

          Second, try going to a regional Burn, where the real burners have escaped the overpriced commercial event in the desert to espouse the true nature of freaks, fire and community

          I just moved to Reno a few days ago, but have been a freak all year round in texas for many years, now that is hard work

          Just because someone goes to the desert doesn't make them a burner, don't hate the real freaks

          Texas has 2 regional burns, there is one in north carolina, arizona, vancouver, montreal, brisbane, orange county, colorado, delaware, idaho, florida, kansas, missouri, kentucky, nola, utah, and washington

          the smaller events are more intimate, less impact, and lower frequency of fucktards that don't get it
  • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

    Tue, September 13, 2005 - 4:40 AM
    So I met this really nice guy who said that I would enjoy AMF but...all you seem like a bunch of self righteous assholes.
    • Re: self righteous assholes

      Wed, September 14, 2005 - 1:47 PM
      Unfortunately you only see these guys representing us as assholes. The reason, I think, is that most Mutants are cool enough, and just let these guys alone to suffer with their miserable little egos. While the majority of Mutants enjoy their lives and spend their time "communicating" and building community instead of arguing it into a hole in the ground.
      Unfortunately I am wasting my time reading this bullshit.
      I'm going to stop.
      I'm newly a Mutant, so perhaps I am not an accurate example. But while I was in the woods I found it rare to meet anyone with such attitude. Please ignore the self righteous assholes.
      • Re: self righteous assholes

        Wed, September 14, 2005 - 2:16 PM
        it's a lot easier to be an asshole in a forum than when you're all out in the woods together. it was a fantastic gathering, and i can proudly call it my home from now on. same with burning man. it was my first time at both, and i will be attending both until i get sick of them (which i doubt will happen any time soon).

        this thread was doomed from the start. posting about how something sux, and something else is way better, is just begging for negativity to spread karmatically. no need to stir emotion. it's a waste of energy. we all had a great time this summer, so why no focus on that? :)
      • Re: self righteous assholes

        Thu, September 15, 2005 - 2:43 PM
        HaHa... they were literally talking it into a whole in the ground as the new rant was about shitters!

        As in any scenario (esp online) A few post - but certainly don't represent the 100+ people on this tribe.

        AMF is amazing! I've gone religiously every year since discovering it. So many different flavors, styles, interests, etc... all in one beautiful location. Most mutants are respectful (of themselves, others, and environment). Please do come next year and come to your own conclusions.
        • Re: self righteous assholes

          Fri, September 16, 2005 - 8:37 AM
          The views and opinions on this thread do not nessessarily reflect the views and opinions of ALL mutants.
          • Re: self righteous assholes

            Mon, September 19, 2005 - 5:47 PM
            It was my first AMF and my 6th burning man, I enjoyed both for different reasons. I like the sound of "mutant" better than "burner", but then again I'm not really into categorizing myself by the festivals I attend or the company I keep. obviously this is a group for "mutants" & not "burners" but the prejudice of saying that I suck if I go to burning man, quite frankly, comes off with it's head up it's ass.
  • Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

    Fri, October 7, 2005 - 4:46 AM
    But I like both the parties. I think that yall are wasting your time and just validating the BM event just by thinking and typing about it. Yall are the one's making a direct correlation between the events. It would be nice for them to be entirely autonomous of each other. I personally would rather not self-identify as anything that relates me to event a week out of my year. Although "mutant" for sure is way more vague.
    • nx
      nx
      offline 43

      Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

      Fri, October 7, 2005 - 7:57 AM
      agreed. something cannot be truly called "autonomous" if it is defined primarily in opposition to something else (more established). same goes for political movements.
      • Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

        Mon, October 10, 2005 - 1:45 PM
        Well, that's nice and all, but let's just observe a couple of differences here:

        1) Burning Shit costs over $200 a ticket. That says right there that it's geared for an exclusive crowd, one with money. Can't barter your way in, you can work if you kiss the right asses, but then you spend the party working. Sure, folks sneak in, but they are the exception to the rule, and the party is NOT about sneaking in. It's about paying a bunch of money to be a part of a fashion statement and you don't even get a bottle of fucking water for that money.

        Nobody starves at AMF, there are kitchens all over the place and people share. Fresh water, and not only that, it's FREE. No entrance fees, no pre-sales, nothing. You get your ass there and that's it, it's all there for you to enjoy and participate in.

        2) Burning Shit HARMS the environment. The Playa is a fragile ecosystem that takes a LOT longer to biodegrade 20,000+ people's urine, garbage, burnt items, puke, drugs, wasted food, fuel and all the other not so wonderful messes that end up in the dust there than most other places on the planet. When that dust blows, you're breathing and wearing the waste of thousands over the last ten years. Mmm...yummy...yuppie-alternaraver piss!!! The Playa doesn't break wastes down like the forest. It's just alkaline chalk, with little to no microbes in it to digest anything. No bugs, no worms, no flies except the ones people bring in, and those die quickly when the people leave. Now maybe some of you don't care because it's just a fucking party to you, but the Playa is going to be dirty for a long time after you're gone, and you burners can pats yourselves on the back for a job, shittily done. "Who cares? It's a patch of dust in the middle of nowhere!" So are you, and so is this planet if you and everyone around you thinks like that.

        AMF tries (although somewhat unsuccessfully as of late) to teach its attendees to NOT harm the environment, but clean up after oneself, behave resonsibly toward the environment which is hosting us and leave as little to no trace as possible. What wastes we do leave are usually very biodegradable, and we make conscious efforts in that direction.

        So while the AMF isn't a conscious effort to destroy Burning Shit, we did start it as an alternative and to try to shed a little more light on things, which apparently a lot of people just seem to want to turn away from, because basically they're just too fucking selfish to face the fact that some things, no matter how you try to justify them and the pleasure you take from them are fundamentally wrong, destructive and inconsiderate of something bigger longer lasting and farther reaching than any of you as individuals, yet it's your own idividual choices that cause that destruction.

        Oh...I almost forgot to mention. AMF doesn't encourage the presence of cops with police dogs. Cops get in free to Burning Shit. Think about it and maybe try to act with a little more conscientious decisions than in the past.

        O
        • Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

          Tue, October 11, 2005 - 2:01 PM
          BM pays shitloads to the government in order to rent the land. They take NO SPONSORSHIPS and therefore everything has to be payed for by the people instead of corporations, as the false image to the left suggests. No one starves at BM either. You go to any kitchen and you'll be fed and wattered. And showered, if you came to our camp (Nexus). People stay there for months cleaning up every little speck, and not just within the fence area but the whole fucking playa. Get off your high horse. If you don't like something, great. Keep it to yourself. No one wants to hear your whining.
          • Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

            Sat, October 22, 2005 - 9:02 PM
            Whining, my ass, and you can kiss it, too. I've been one of the poor dusty wretches to scrape the dust for a week or two straight and clean that place after all the rich yuppies and neo-spiritual artsy fartsists gone and left all their mess behind. Know what? The job doesn't get that well done, and that ain't even the serious damage. The fuel and the biological waste are the hazards and those CANNOT be cleaned up, so it you want to argue that shit, learn your facts. You contributed to a mess, and know you have a better idea of what that mess is. If you want to continue to consciously choose to mess up a fragile part of our ecology, then do not expect to go unfrowned upon.

            Yeah, fed and watered, that's why people DIE of dehydration out there every year for the last...how many now? And no it's NOT the whole fucking playa, so stop lyin like that. I've been there, done that job, and to clean the whole playa would take years, and thousand of people, and then that still wouldn't take care of the biological and chemical pollutants.

            Good job, hope you feel very proud of yourself.
            • Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

              Sat, October 22, 2005 - 11:29 PM
              you do a beautiful job of making people start to wonder if they even want to come to mutantfest next year.

              fortunately (perhaps unfortunately for you) i'm not easily swayed by egotism.
              • Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

                Mon, October 24, 2005 - 9:38 AM
                I would hope not. What I hope you would be swayed by is your own conscience. Honestly I don't care if you personally go to AMF next year, or ever. I care about you and others like you who are happy to pay a bunch of cash and do practically irrepairable damage to a fragile part of the world simply to satisfy selfish desires to participate in something that you now know is wrong and hurtful, but rationalize to avert guilt. Apart from the exclusionary shit that it results in, the monetary aspect of Burning Shit is trivial. That comes and goes. The mess doesn't. If you go to Burning Shit, you help support and contribute to the mess. That is bad and it's wrong, and it's your choice, plain and simple.
                • Re: I'm not a mutant or a burner

                  Mon, October 24, 2005 - 12:20 PM
                  oh yes, and you live in a bubble where you don't drive a car, don't buy food made anywhere else other than your garden, don't live in a home that killed an ecosystem when it was built, don't smoke or drink, don't buy clothes made by the chinese, don't use electricity, don't play any instruments that were made in factories, and you've caused absolutely no pollution by your existence. frankly, your personality is more of a pollutant than anything else.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Mutant born

                    Tue, October 25, 2005 - 12:02 AM
                    Don't try to point your stubby little finger at me for the fucked up things you choose to do. Come back to me in a few years, with a healthier mind, body and spirit, having had a such positive impact on others to the point where even a tenth of the people that have literally walked up to me, never having met them before and said "Thank you for changing my life." have done so to you and then we can talk about me and my choices. In the mean time, you worry about the shit on your own shoes.
                    • Re: Mutant born

                      Tue, November 14, 2006 - 1:45 PM
                      why are you so angry?

                      perhaps you love our dear mama gaia and are angry about those who hurt her? that is beautiful. but then your time and energy would be better spent working to protect her rather than ranting for days here and trying to purify the ranks of freakdom. perhaps you do that, too. i don't have the time to read this whole thread and your profile to find out. you preach for a healthy mind, body, and spirit and making a positive impact, but that doesn't seem to be what you are doing in this thread.

                      before you think of some witty insult to throw at me you may want to think about why you are being so negative yourself.
      • Neither Burner nor Mutant

        Tue, October 11, 2005 - 2:05 AM
        Disclaimer: I have never gone to burning man and only one mutant fest, though I was on the last bus to leave the last AMF and so saw the aftermath.

        AMF and Burning Man attract very similar people. AMF has avoided many of the pitfalls of Burning Man because it has not been blown up. Both festivals have dedicated people who put in a shit load of work so that others may enjoy the party. Both have slackers that don't wipe their own asses and rely on (and take advantage of) the kindess of others (the kind of people who abandon cars hoping someone else will clean up their mess, at no cost to themselves. How many years does that take to bio-degrade?). The environmental impact of Burning Man may be much greater than AMF, but I'm guessing this has more to do with magnitude than location. Also BM stays in its location due to tradition (much like AMF moves in accordance with tradition), and the first BM was chosen for the beauty of the place, not for what would happen years down the line.

        It was mentioned that cops swarm Burning Man and that this is not what AMF is about, but if AMF were as large as BM cops would swarm it too. They are free to enter.

        Money is key though. I don't know why BM costs so much and continues to increase. In this thread it has been said that it is to exclude the poor. I'm not so sure this is true as I've heard from a number of people that if you are willing to work you can get in for free or next to free. People who attend BM are not more exclusionary nor have vastly different environmental, political or community ideals than Mutants.

        On that note, one of the reasons for AMF's success is that it is, in a sense, exclusionary. Everyone is invited (and for free, no less), but word is spread mostly through word of mouth and so this creates a tight knit group. Mutants are family. Everyone knows each other and is more apt to respect each other. This also makes mutants somewhat clique-y and perpetuates the holier than though attitude towards Burners. But what if AMF reached that critical mass that BM has achieved and a ton of people flooded in. How different would the two festivals be?

        Of course AMF would stop before that happened.
        (note sarcasm in last sentence)
        • Re: Neither Burner nor Mutant

          Thu, October 5, 2006 - 10:38 PM
          I dont feel that I should have to be a slave to some project to get in at a price I can afford. I like donating my time, but there is often a gigantic amount of energy put into things that are meant to be destroyed, and while its very cool to look at, I find it rather wastefull and mildy offensive to my environmental persectives.... I say mildy because I do appreciate the art.

          I dont really like that its so expensive, I dont like that its so fucking hot, and I especially dont like how the place is swarming with cops and how there is no place in the forest to hide.
        • Re: Neither Burner nor Mutant

          Thu, December 14, 2006 - 4:57 PM
          AMF is, in a sense, an esoteric minority. BM seems to be a convention of esoteric minorities. I do not recall seeing anyone fourty or older at AMF. Flabby naked people never really freaked me out. A lot of them have been swingers for decades, and aren't quite the pervs some might think. I rather like seeing humans from infancy to the twilight of their years.
          The tickets cost so much largely because the Bureau of Land Managment has extorted progressively more money for permission to be on the site. Some of their stipulations include a fence and security (ie rangers), which requires labor and equipment. A lot of work goes into the months of driving T stakes alone. The permit even requires BM to pay for much of the police presence.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

    Sat, October 7, 2006 - 7:24 PM
    I managed to go to both AMF and this year's Burn. It seems there is the good bad and ugly about both so what's the use in complaining about it? There are always people that are unwilling to get involved and truly participate by donating their time and labor - who gives a fuck about money. And there are always people unwilling to see eye to eye on some matter or another (like how I heard at AMF of one camp deciding another camp's generator was environmentally unfriendly and therefore turning it off repeatedly to silence their sound system).

    AMF is a lovely group. So are a good majority of the folks at BM. We not only have ourselves (as a human race) to blame for the havoc and wreckage we have left in the environment but the scores of generations before us that didn't give a fuck and didn't have a clue. At least Burning Man is attempting to do something about it by next year focusing their theme on sustainability and a lower impact on the environment. But it wouldn't hurt to find some method to keep out the yuppie spectators and their renta-RVs! Fuck.

    The forest and desert are both sacred places. I don't see the logic one way or the other in blasting the trees with sound pollution as well as generator exhaust... The impact on both environments is undeniable. Yet it always seems that someone, somewhere is unhappy with whatever the fuck someone else is doing about environmental impact. What's the point of arguing; why don't we all get our asses off the internet and go do something about it rather than complain?
    • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

      Sat, October 7, 2006 - 11:11 PM
      word bro.
      • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

        Sat, November 18, 2006 - 2:22 AM
        "who gives a fuck about money."

        People who dont have alot of it. It probably matters less to the middle class, which price may exclude many poor students or travelers, or young people living on their own.
        • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

          Tue, January 9, 2007 - 5:52 PM
          There is nothing "wrong" with burning man, and there is nothing wrong with people who are able to attend and enjoy that festival. More power to them.

          However, it is a for profit venture that excludes many people due to the steep price they demand for themselves and for the BLM. There are also drawbacks like the heavy police pressence, and ethical issues like the waste of resources.

          I have tons of close friends who I love who attend Burning Man, and while I dont think any less of them for going its not something I would choose to spend my money or effort on at this point. I would have liked to have gone when it was new, darker, and more wild, but from what I hear from my friends who go it has continued to get more expensive and yet more tame.
  • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

    Sat, January 27, 2007 - 6:02 AM
    Yeah.... hey, autumn, why don't you delete this thread....or--- hey moderator, do your job and delete it for her. I'm about to put a torch to both burning man and AMF because all of you are acting like a bunch of self righteous assholes.... at this point republican treefarmers seem more mature to me.
    • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

      Sat, January 27, 2007 - 6:25 AM
      Oh, I forgot... dogma won't allow the moderator to moderate, and everyone else likes to argue to make thmselves feel better about themselves... argue on children. All the responsible people will just end up leaving to do their own thing. Speaking of which.... I've got better things to do.
      • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

        Sat, January 27, 2007 - 12:22 PM
        One of the tricky bits about trying to live in a community that values autonomy is that if other people act like asses or simply disagree with you, you have to figure out a way to deal with it rather than shutting them down and shutting them up. Hopefully. Maybe that sounds like it sucks, until you're the one being shut down. Just saying.

        And as far as deleting threads, I thought it would have been kind of ironic if the moderator ("Nobody") was the one to delete the other thread ("Mutantfest hates hippies?" started by Sentience). I'm not sure if it was the mod, or if it was deleted by Sentience (I think on tribe you always have the option to delete a thread that you started.)

        I think that it's also important to note that the arrows that have been slung on here lately are a handful of people, compared to the hundreds that attend AMF.
        • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

          Sat, January 27, 2007 - 2:33 PM
          that is a very good point, and supports the reason why the thread should be deleted.... the person who posted it is attacking half of her community, and if anything is causing dissention amongst people who should be friends.... it's a little embarrassing to be assosciated with these "handful of people", and while you know it's not necessarily typical of everyone who attends, I imagine most people who read this forget that.... and it makes ALL of us look like jerks (and it automatically infringes on my freedom of autonomy to be considered a jerk because of someone else... and what about the burner's autonomy-- this thread automatically attacks that)..... hence, I am exercising my autonomous voice by saying that. It seems like the autonomous way of dealing with it is asking the person responsible to take responsibility for it. From there it is their choice, as I cannot delete this thread.

          The issue of autonomy has been an interesting topic over the years... and it always comes back to being able to exercise your own autonomy without infringing on someone elses.... but over the years I have come to realize that many people in this community really are still children's minds in adult bodies (trust me... I've been wiping many of their noses for years....) and they are not exercising autonomy. In fact, My lover and I were working so hard so others could have the "autonomy" that they were looking for, that I ended up really sick(not just the endo), and he couldn't stop working because there weren't enough people out of the thousands in this community to pick up the slack... and I had to leave the community to get the support that I needed. Come to find out, had I not left... I would have eventually died. Do I have to die because others can't take care of themselves? This is a real issue, and should be examined thoroughly.

          autonomy:
          1. immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence
          2. personal independence

          Many people enter this community looking for an easy ride, as there is an imbalance of people doing the work versus people who reap the benefits from it (and the ones working don't have time to enjoy the benefits most of the time).... and I have found that most people who complain about their autonomy being infringed upon are just complaining that someone asked them to practice real autonomy. But this is a discussion for another thread, as this thread is a burner bashing one.... I recomend asking if anyone other than the people who normally scout have actually put any effort, or even a thought into it, or are they expecting those people who do the work to wipe thier noses yet again...... being responsible for yourself goes deeper than just saying that you are. Most mutants have forgotten that because they are so caught up in the dogma of autonomy.... but it's not a black and white issue, in fact, it's mostly grey.

          I appreciate your insight meander. And I will post a new thread to discuss this more, as I am independantly hoping that the person who posted this one will take autonomous responsibility for her attack, and delete this thread.

      • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

        Sat, January 27, 2007 - 1:18 PM
        Beware! a 16kw diesel veggie generator and a transit bus full of dreaddies to invade AMF!
        • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

          Sat, January 27, 2007 - 2:58 PM
          Shock and awe !
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

            Sun, April 22, 2007 - 12:39 PM
            ...although it seems risky here to post an opinion which supports Burningman...

            Burningman is set up the way it is for some very good reasons, its in the middle of nowhere and costs so much because otherwise people WOULD prolly starve (like some dipshit was claiming). For instance, theres no 'a' camp at Burningman because people have to have their shit together to get out there (yes, that includes money for a ticket and supplies, come on you dont have to be a millonaire you just need to be self-reliant and lemme point out that a lot of the cost of the ticket GOES TO CLEANUP), and you cant just stumble into BM being some fullblown alcoholic asshole. Although Im sure there are a few of those there, I can truthfully say that 99% of the people I meet are goodhearted, mindful beings who are <<self reliant>>...which is one of the most important aspects of survival out there.
            As far as the environmental impact goes, the Burner community is aware and increasingly concerned which is why the theme this year is "The Green Man". See www.burningman.com/art_of_bur..._theme.html
            BM isnt about puking on a pile of glowsticks, as someone was pointing out, obviously that person neglected to take part in one of the hundreds of workshops that go on throughout the week, or the thousands of magical connections and networking of amazing artists and activists and overall beautiful people that share their energy. This year is especially going to be special becuase people are encouraged to find and work on SOLUTIONS to our environmental crisis, and bring them not only to the playa, but out into the default culture as well. And as far as you money haters go, some solutions are going to require money...although it would be a nice pipe dream to go back to a more simplistic lifestyle with no damaging technology, its not gonna happen so some solutions will need funding in order to be implimented.
            I sincerely hope the lot of you arnt like the narrow minded bungholes that made such a stir on this thread.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

              Sun, April 22, 2007 - 7:12 PM
              new post
              Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!Today, 12:39 PM
              ...although it seems risky here to post an opinion which supports Burningman...

              Burningman is set up the way it is for some very good reasons, its in the middle of nowhere and costs so much because otherwise people WOULD prolly starve (like some dipshit was claiming). For instance, theres no 'a' camp at Burningman because people have to have their shit together to get out there (yes, that includes money for a ticket and supplies, come on you dont have to be a millonaire you just need to be self-reliant and lemme point out that a lot of the cost of the ticket GOES TO CLEANUP), and you cant just stumble into BM being some fullblown alcoholic asshole. Although Im sure there are a few of those there, I can truthfully say that 99% of the people I meet are goodhearted, mindful beings who are <<self reliant>>...which is one of the most important aspects of survival out there.
              As far as the environmental impact goes, the Burner community is aware and increasingly concerned which is why the theme this year is "The Green Man". See www.burningman.com/art_of_bur..._theme.html
              BM isnt about puking on a pile of glowsticks, as someone was pointing out, obviously that person neglected to take part in one of the hundreds of workshops that go on throughout the week, or the thousands of magical connections and networking of amazing artists and activists and overall beautiful people that share their energy. This year is especially going to be special becuase people are encouraged to find and work on SOLUTIONS to our environmental crisis, and bring them not only to the playa, but out into the default culture as well. And as far as you money haters go, some solutions are going to require money...although it would be a nice pipe dream to go back to a more simplistic lifestyle with no damaging technology, its not gonna happen so some solutions will need funding in order to be implimented.
              I sincerely hope the lot of you arnt like the narrow minded bungholes that made such a stir on this thread.




              well that is not even rightfully a temporary Autonomous zone yo... while we are part ov the semi-permanent autonomous zone...


              if you're heavy into the true autonomous-shit you wouldn't go to the burning-thing...not anymore it's either m,utant fest the canadian (mostly TGA&MTL)for the annual teknival-thing they do..........................................................................or find out about that one older one i never went to but i believe it was called sometimes bezerkus. i would want to go by myself or with even only one other person to go and look in the spring for possible potential actual locations for the forthcoming seasons/years annual mutantfestival or make a new mutantfestival ..............................................................i wouldnt go ta burningman. tho i know some members of spaz have been to it before but. i dont think they do anymore........................................................................................................................just to scout and to the autonomous mutant festival..................and to RV parks,...............................................................................................................and the burning man festival in no way was even influenced by,.,..................by burning man................okay...........it was the french and uk and european travelling 23 freak and greasy tekno freetekno people...............so there's no reason to go to there man,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AMF is home. freetekno culture forever peace
              • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

                Sun, April 22, 2007 - 7:51 PM
                saying that someone shouldn't go somewhere based on your standards of what "autonomous" means is kinda presumptuous. we find what we are looking for at burning man just like you find what you're looking for at AMF. personally i like both, but am pretty irritated at those that think "their" festival is the "true" one and all the others suck. live and let live. you don't like the burn? fine. there's no need to hurl insults at those who do, we're not hurting you.
            • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

              Tue, April 24, 2007 - 10:48 PM
              Personally, I was amused to find a pile of vomit-covered glowsticks. It certainly encapsulated the mood of many of the people I met. They were there to party and gawk at naked chicks. I'm sure they were a minority,though theywere certainly a vocal and rowdy minority.

              But I had a good time there anyway, and I would go again, except it's always the first week of the Fall semester. I just wouldn't advise anyone going to either festival to expect it to be like any other festival. AMF and Burning Man are different animals. Lately, I'm the broke and easily sunburnt kind of animal, and AMF reminds me much less of Las Vegas.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

          Sun, April 22, 2007 - 6:59 PM
          neat.

          nice.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

            Sun, April 22, 2007 - 7:01 PM
            that was supposed to be in repliance to evilive.


            ^
            • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

              Sun, April 22, 2007 - 8:25 PM
              Burning Man is a fun wild party....Heavily policed, very expensive, not as free spirited as it used to be, capitalist for profit money making party. It is not the free Autonomous Zone is often portrayed as.

              There is nothing wrong with people going to Burning Man though....its not any worse than spending your money on any other corporate product, like a big screne TV, or paying 100 bucks for concert. Its actually more fun than either of those things, and there is a degree of community, which makes it a worth while experience for many.

              However, it is a capitalist gathering that is highly policed. I certainly wouldnt spend that much money on a party, and I also prefer the forest to the dessert.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

                Mon, April 23, 2007 - 6:53 AM
                word.
                • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

                  Mon, April 23, 2007 - 5:38 PM
                  The theme at Burning Turd this year is " Green man " !!! When I heard this I thought it had to be a JOKE.
                  It is a very bad joke. Can you imagine celebrating something calling itself " Green Man " in a sea of thousands of RVs, Trucks, art cars etc ? The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. I think one of the worse things to come out of burning turd is the burner " RV Culture " it has spawned. It's just not sustainable and the pollution is ugly. I like mutant fest because of its low impact on the environment.
  • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

    Wed, May 2, 2007 - 10:00 PM
    So much judgement here. So much energy wasted on what others are doing. Who the fuck cares who goes where? Freedom of will & autonomy for all. Who is anyone to judge another for the decisions he or she makes. Make up your own mind, and follow your own heart. The dogma here is no different from a religious person attempting to subject another to his/her belief system by humiliation, anger & judgement. For fuck's sake people! If you like dig the trees and the forest whispers and beckons, & mutant fest is your thing, fabulous...if the desert calls to your soul with its swirls of dust, go...but this judging another's will thing is saddening. Conformity should not exist in the fringes of subculture, sadly it does.
    • Re: I'm a mutant not a burner!

      Thu, May 3, 2007 - 2:02 AM
      Dont judge us for judging others. Because if you judge us for judging others we will judge you for judging us, and the people we judged will jump in and judge us too, then we will have to judge them right back.

      I think I made it pretty clear that I have many close friends who attend Burning Man. I just think its over priced and the revolutionary aspect of it is greatly exaggerated. Of out all the summer festivals, its the most expensive and capitalistic of them all. Still fun, but more of a psychedelic amusement park with police officers and profiteers selling you ice in the desert....not so much is it a grassroots autonomous zone. You have to be a paying customer or submit yourself to working the whole time if you want to get in.

      I dont feel there is anything wrong with sharing our opinions. Its not like we are going around beating them up.
      Some of my best friends go actually. They have told me though that it used to be better.
      • Re: I'm a burner not a mutant

        Mon, May 7, 2007 - 11:30 PM
        Judging the judger is a complicated affair obviously.

        Opions are like arseholes, everyone has one right ?

        So when you make an opinion and then someone judges it,
        you start to develope a thread that kinda looks like this huh ?

        humans are strange creatures....
        • This thread is now 1.5 yrs old

          Tue, May 8, 2007 - 3:19 PM
          A this point I'm just waiting to see how long this 'conversation' can continue. Will another AMF and Burning Man pass us by, leading to a whole new spurt of 'new' observations? I'm on the edge of my seat. Only 3 more months to go...

Recent topics in "Autonomous Mutant Festival"